cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/42211261
Nato chief says continent cannot afford to replace American security umbrella
WTF Mark!
Paywall. Here’s another article on the same topic, in case anyone else needs it.
not totally wrong. personally i look at it as we need to influence the world to understand that colaboration is more beneficial to everyone than confrontation. that doesn’t mean to not fight roge and detrimental actions. wip and carrot.
Security from who, jackass?
Russia.
Russia isn’t the Soviets, and they can’t threaten NATO even without America.
That paranoia was reasonable enough before Ukraine put them in a meat grinder and started cranking but Russia’s out of Soviet surplus and they’re running out of kids to throw away for Putin’s ego.
His job is to keep NATO together and strong, of course he wants the US to remain a part of it.
With this at least, we now know he’s working against the EU and is actively supporting Donald Trump, he said as much. I can’t stand citizen saboteurs, no matter if they’re American or Russian, these cunts wouldn’t survive an anti-corruption probe.
I know the article probably reports him meaning the opposite but the title sure reads like “stop dreaming, start today”.
Can do attitude 👍
Is this even for real? We are not doing it just for fun, it is a necessity forced on us by Trump using the USA security leverage against us to conquer territory.
What the fuck does he want us to do? Just roll over and do what Trump wants? On whose side is he? Because he is not on Europe’s side.
On whose side is he? Because he is not on Europe’s side.
He is on Nato’s side, which is like 60% US’ side and 40% Europe’s side. Those numbers could be a bit off considering Nato didn’t have sides until recently.
That’s what I am thinking. NATO is a USA centered alliance for looking after US interests. European interest happened to coincide with theirs for a long time, but clearly the USA is growing increasingly disinterested. Europeans should probably take over most of it, make it a Europe centered alliance.
I was thinking we could keep the name if we focus on the north of the Atlantic, e.g. Greenland. Makes more sense to have loyal Canada as a member :)
Yeah the Arctic and North Atlantic are important to Europe without a doubt. No name change needed, just Europe taking more initiative, leadership and becoming more central in the organization.
Canada is a natural partner in the Arctic and North Atlantic. So is of course also the USA, but they cannot be trusted: (
The sad part is that Canada is probably in Europe’s share in the numbers above.
Yeah it’s more like US’ side and everybody else’s side
Yes, that’s the angle he’s being paid to spin. Don’t think it will work, but a mans gotta get paid, ammirite?!
He want Europe to start actually spending on defense so the US isn’t required for NATO to be a threat.
But he said that it is pointless to try, that it is too expensive to try to defend Europe without the USA. Read the article. He ridiculed the idea of European defence without the USA.
Rutte is a clown
and he has been one ever since he was leading my country
Tonight’s top story in metaphorical news at 11. The US bent itself in half to suck its own dick and broke it’s spine. Doctors were unable to ascertain the nature or extent of the injury as America is both paraplegic and unable to speak because of the cock in its mouth.
The nations top physicians are consulting on what can be done. The nations top philosophers, having already debated what should be done, have released their final report concluding “Why bother”.
It is going to be kind of expensive for the EU to replace the non-expeditionary capabilities of the US military. There are also some parts, like a nuclear umbrella, which are going to need to be worked out.
It isn’t impossible, but it is going to be pretty expensive and a lot of it should be built at the supernational level, preferably the EU.
France have enough nuclear weapons to start judgement day so I don’t see the point.
Yes, France has it. The question is how it gets used to protect the rest of Europe.
You don’t use it, that’s the point. The moment someone fires one it’s end of world situation.
You don’t use it, but you need to be able to use it for the threat to be credible.
The thing is, it will not likely get any cheaper while it will likely be become more necessary.
Yeah, I agree.
One thing that would help is defining European defense policy. I feel like a lot of countries are spending money without a target for what they should be trying to build.
Europe is “dreaming” if it believes it can defend itself without US backing, Nato’s secretary-general has warned, pushing back against calls in some EU capitals to prepare for a future without Washington’s protection.
The comments come after Donald Trump threatened to use military force to seize Greenland from Nato ally Denmark and to impose tariffs on other allies who opposed him — remarks that unsettled European governments and reignited debate over the continent’s reliance on the US. Although the US president rescinded the threats last week, they prompted renewed calls for Europe to accelerate efforts to strengthen its own defence capabilities.
Mark Rutte, Nato’s secretary-general who last week persuaded Trump to withdraw his threats, dismissed those arguments on Monday. Rutte told EU lawmakers that building a fully independent European defence would be prohibitively expensive and would benefit only the bloc’s adversaries, including Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“If anyone thinks here . . . that the European Union or Europe as a whole can defend itself without the US, keep on dreaming,” he said in remarks to the European parliament. “You can’t.”
“I think there will be a lot of duplication and I wish you luck if you want to do it, because you have to find the men and women in uniform . . . on top of what is happening already,” he said. “It will make things more complicated. I think Putin will love it. So think again.”
Independence from the US security umbrella that has shielded Europe since the second world war was once a niche idea, promoted largely by France.
But the notion of “strategic autonomy” has moved steadily into the EU mainstream in recent years, as Donald Trump’s erratic approach to Nato allies — reinforced by Russia’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine — has sharpened debate over how Europe can strengthen its own defence capabilities.
Last year Nato allies agreed to lift their defence spending to 5 per cent of GDP by 2035, responding to Trump’s demand that Europe shoulder a larger share of the burden for its own defence.
Even so, experts warn that fully replacing the US role in Europe — particularly in areas such as advanced weaponry and critical capabilities on which European forces have relied for decades — would be vastly more expensive.
“If you really want to go it alone, forget that you can ever get there with 5 per cent [defence spending]. It will be 10 per cent,” Rutte said on Monday. “You have to build up your own nuclear capability. That costs billions and billions of euros.”
“You have to build up your own nuclear capability. That costs billions and billions of euros.”
Did no one tell him France has already done this? (And the UK to a lesser extent but we still rely on a US delivery system)
Far right will most probably take over power in France very soon. Hoping they will still defend Eastern Europe with their nukes after that makes as much sense as relying on Trump. EU needs a new defense pact what will build up and share their nuclear capability. It will be expensive but Europe can afford it. The problem is no one is planning to do it yet.
The big questions with France’s nuclear umbrella are whether France will provide a nuclear guarantee to the rest of Europe, who makes the decision to launch nukes, and who will pay for it.
France has the best military in the EU and would likely form the core of the EU’s defense strategy, but it shouldn’t hold key competencies in defense.
Rutte only gave a half answer. He spoke of duplication and cost of building a sovereign defense. He never said what the costs of not doing so were.
Well, Trump keeps showing it and people still seem not to believe it.
