I did some analysis of the modlog and found this:

V8lPrxY1qxcISLe.png

Ok, bigger instances ban more often. Not surprising, because they have more communities and more users and more trouble. But hang on, dbzer0 isn’t a very big instance. What happens if we do a ratio of bans vs number of users?

vyfUNYTrX9pHQeR.png

Ok, so lemmy.ml, dbzer0 and pawb are issue an outsized amount of bans for the number of users they have… But surely the number of communities the instance hosts is going to mean they have to ban more? Bans are used to moderate communities, not just to shield their user-base from the outside. Let’s look at the number of bans per community hosted:

Yrc7TofOr88SeGt.png

Seems like dbzer0 really loves to ban. Even more than the marxists and the furries! What is it about dbzer0 that makes them such prolific banners?

Raw-ish numbers and calculations are in this spreadsheet if anyone wants to make their own charts.

  • Hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    13 hours ago

    Womemstuff is on the blahaj piefed, not the blahaj lemmy, so I guess it wasn’t included in the dataset?

    There’s something interesting here, I’d love to read more comprehensive research on this topic.

    • Jorunn (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      8 hours ago

      That’s true! I meant more as an example of a community that because of its nature has to ban more than other communities!

      Also it occurs to me that I have no idea if rimu is looking at instance bans, community bans, or all bans. Instance bans will typically also include community bans which can inflate the numbers if all bans are counted in the data

      Edit: in fact it’s all weird. if you instance ban someone early before they can participate much they technically get very few community bans, whereas if you ban someone who has participated a lot they’ll get lots of community bans as well (when you are instance banned you get banned from all communities you’ve participated in on that instance). an instance that is more trigger happy will have fewer community bans than an instance that is slow to instance ban

      Edit 2: And then there’s temporary bans! I dunno if those have been counted

      • Hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 hours ago

        According to the spreadsheet, the data was scraped from the piefed modlog. It searched for entries for ban_user, which seems to include both instance bans, community bans, and temporary bans. So it appears to me, it just scraped the piefed modlog within the last year and counted any entry for ban_user, associated the entry with the moderator who performed the action and returned the count. I’m no PHP expert so I’ve included the PHP code below. Pretty sure user_id is the moderator who did the action, because the target seems to be suspect_user_name.

        php code from spreadsheet
        select ml.user_id, u.title, u.ap_id, count(*) as c
        from mod_log as ml
        inner join "user" as u on u.id = ml.user_id
        where ml.user_id is not null
        and ( ml.action = 'ban_user')
        and ml.created_at >= now() - interval '1 year'
        group by ml.user_id, u.ap_id, u.title
        order by c desc;
        

        As far as I can tell, instance bans appear as one single entry, and community bans are also a single entry. And this seems to be counting total ban actions, not the total number of user accounts that have been banned.

        Any instance that moderates in a way that allows users to accumulated multiple bans will be over-reported. If an instance does mostly community bans and is reluctant to give a sitewide ban will be over-reported. A forgiving instance that only bans temporarily, or allows users to be unbanned easily will also be over-reported. A weeklong ban and a sitewide permaban are all one counted entry in the modlog.

        My gut thought is that a malicious ban-happy instance would be one that would escalate immediately. One that gives an instancewide ban at the first violation. In this case, they would be very under-reported. In this case, a banned user could only generate one entry at maximum.

        I thought that was likely why blahaj is so much lower than I would expect, but I think there’s another issue.

        The spreadsheet got instance information by associating the moderator action with the mod who did the action. There’s a list of the moderators included and their count, but the only blahaj moderator in that list is ada. I know we have other mods, why aren’t they in the dataset presented in the spreadsheet? If this data is to be believed, the entire portion of the fediverse surveyed by these modlog php requests only has 20 moderators. That can’t be right. This data is very sus. Womensstuff’s mod actions can be seen in the modlog of other piefed instances, and I know those mods do a lot of bans, they should be in the spreadsheet’s list of mods but just aren’t.

        There’s also the issue that piefed.social, seems to use the delete_user command instead of the ban command. My guess is that is similar to lemmy’s purge user action, probably maybe? From my browsing of the modlog that command doesn’t seem to be used by any other instance, at least not in a way that gets recorded by piefed. If the PHP command the spreadsheet said it used is accurate, it wouldn’t include any instances of delete_user, which would result in bans from piefed.social being very under-reported.

        From my digging into this, it all seems incredibly suspicious. And my digging is making me believe this is pretty manipulative framing.

        I want to see this done properly. I want to see the stats where we learn the number of users that are banned by instances, rather than the total number of moderator ban actions. I want to see a better study that addresses the myriad concerns raised in these comments, but most importantly.

        I want to see this study done by someone who is impartial. The developer and admin of one of the instances in the dataset has a major major conflict of interest and really shouldn’t be the one publishing this kind of research.

        • Skavau@piefed.social
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          2 hours ago

          There’s also the issue that piefed.social, seems to use the delete_user command instead of the ban command. My guess is that is similar to lemmy’s purge user action, probably maybe? From my browsing of the modlog that command doesn’t seem to be used by any other instance, at least not in a way that gets recorded by piefed. If the PHP command the spreadsheet said it used is accurate, it wouldn’t include any instances of delete_user, which would result in bans from piefed.social being very under-reported.

          This is mostly used for banning of new users (usually AI bots, trolls, spammers) rather than as a rule. I don’t know if rimu’s data detects that, but it does specifically note the average account age of a banned user from piefed.social is much younger than most other instances. But the “delete user” bans do show in the mod-logs from piefeds perspective.

          • Hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            2 hours ago

            I know they’re in the modlog. That’s how I know about them. I think the PHP command used would not have counted them. When I, as a browser user filter the piefed modlog page by the term used on the PHP command, it excludes delete_user entries.