Yeah. There was a time I merely thought the other side was misguided, but would see reason if we talk. That isn’t how it works. Bullies only recognize power, and one should know when to speak their language.

Hell no. You want us to surrender to evil people.

Dunno, honestly. Still, I expect that if the EU implemented a Russian Marshall Plan, they likely have intelligence profiles on who is least bad to head up a budding democracy. If that someone steps out of line, they are removed in some fashion and a different person is tried until the project succeeds. In this hypothetical scenario, the EU can shut the Marshall purse strings until an appropriate puppet is willing to be tied to them. Or leave through a convenient window in search of a replacement.

I wasn’t advocating for his survival. His elimination is a prerequisite to a genuine Marshall Plan. The question is what happens after his death, and that means supporting Russian leaders who prefer democracy over the old ways.

I don’t think our positions are mutually exclusive. I am thinking Russia in the west getting the Marshall Plan reform treatment would be done, and what you described also happening. That would make it easier for the EU to handle the Russian territory closer to home.

Plus, China tearing off a haunch of Russia might be good for peace in the long run. It would allow Xi Ping to have a victorious legacy, without having to attack Taiwan. The Chinese tiger might sleep while digesting the territory it reclaimed from Russia.

I would assume that Ukraine would also get a Marshall Plan. The place is rich with resources and food, but lacks the infrastructure to take advantage. That makes Ukraine suitable for investment, since the EU would get a healthy trading partner in the long run. As with Russia, letting Ukraine rot after the conflict could lead to trouble down the line, so keeping democratic Ukraine in good health is key to keeping the peace.

Be it pragmatic or moral, there is a great deal of value in well executed Marshall Plans for everyone involved.

Considering how Western Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan turned out after their Marshall Plans, I think there is a lot of evidence that reforming and rebuilding a country helps with making them into democratic major powers. I would guess the EU would do it, and Ukraine would want their neighbor to stop being a jackass.

Poland certainly wouldn’t want Ukraine to annex Russia, that just means a new rival on their doorstep. Ditto for Turkey, since they are a naval bottleneck, and wouldn’t want a Uber Ukraine to get ideas. So on and so forth. A lot of nations would rather a smaller and reformed Russia, than a bigger and hungry Ukraine. Better to foster small but capable democracies that want to be part of the EU bloc.

If Putin dies, a successor might (secretly) align with Ukraine. Something like “If you attack XX, I will remove my troops from ZZ, if you don’t attack me. I will be focusing on a bread & butter campaign if I run Russia. Take care of my rivals in the meantime, mm’kay?”

Mind, I would prefer Russia outright being conquered and Marshall Planned into something completely different, but I would accept the other scenario if the outcome could be decent. In this case, Ukraine gets back Crimea and all other territories, plus security guarantees.