

the 4000 years of necessary tragedy and sacrifice, aka the golden path, is also remarkably similar to the rationalists’ teleology! specifically the longtermist stuff! i.e. it’s okay to sacrifice lives today to ensure humanity’s survival.
Only in the broadest sense where humanity survives into the far future by spreading so far and wide that no matter the scale of a catastrophe a significant part will always continue to thrive.
However, where longtermism is about papercliping the entire universe into compute to fulfil some vague utilitarian notion of virtual happiness quota, the GP seems to be more about crippling the substructure that ostensibly causes humanity again and again be reduced to the whims of some supreme authority, be it the automated thinking machines from their past or their current much harder to escape succession of psychic tyrants let loose by selectively breeding for something humanity had absolutely no natural defence against.
The GP isn’t even a utopia, it’s a response to an immediate incredibly out of the box problem, the inevitability of an eventual dynasty of space wizard genghis khans.
i think herbert’s feelings about breeding programs are … complicated. he never presents it as ethical but he does seem fascinated by the concept and he’s very very into the idea of forging supermen from extreme environmental pressure. like “comes up several times per book” levels of fascinated.
I think they come second to his concerns about ecology and humanity’s relation to the environment. Post-desert fremen are basically water-fat cosplayers, and in general, other than the deliberately paradigm shattering kwisatz haderach, the end product of genetic adjustment are never presented as an apex for humanity, more like a good fit for their niche, like how post-emperor fish-speakers either peter-out or get subsumed by other factions.








Nerding out about Dune is tremendously cool and i love it, you can pick any thread to pull and it always goes somewhere.
Isn’t aspiring for the aesthetics while ignoring the (admittedly heavily lore driven and not especially applicable to irl) substance exactly what the torment nexus meme is about though? Except I don’t think there is a dust-speckness aspect to the GP, you aren’t future-human-population-maxxing1, the point seems to be to ensure there is a future where humanity’s collective free will isn’t utterly tethered to a prescient autocrat2, and the prescriptive aspect is that we should be part of an open system instead of say locked in with the great man of history du jour, which is also in keeping with the ecological framing.
It’s been a while but I don’t think the Golden Path is even that front and center in the text, Dune 4: GEOD is basically a character study on the God emperor, who is one of the most unique and fascinating characters in sci-fi3.
I think this is why the GP is a TINA situation by authorial decree, it’s Frank Herbert going listen, I’m doing my best to write a suicidal rebirth god archetype as a layered and relatable-yet-utterly-othered character, you are not supposed to be worrying that much if there could be a GP-but-liberal with more individual thriving and less oppressive totalitarianism, I assure you he’s thought about it extensively and he thinks there sure can’t and that’s it.
The Bureau of Saboteurs books along with Godmakers were my favourite non-Dune Herbert books! I also found the Dragon in the Sea fascinating 20 years ago and think I should revisit, and also finally read the follow up collaborations that only seem to be available unofficially. Also The White Plague gave late-teens me nightmares.
I remember Dosadi as being more about FH going all out on the intrigue and deep lore to the point where the latter parts of the book are basically written in innuendo, you are literally expected to read between the lines to understand what the hell is going on, I wish my parents had as much faith in me as Frank Herbert had in his readers.
The worst aspects of FH I’m aware of are that he was a shitty fucking parent and hated Iron Maiden, unambiguously evil seems stretching it, unless you were his son.
I think there even is a case to be made about how Frank Herbert is the anti-L. Ron Hubbard, using sci-fi literature as an efficient outlet for his psychedelics/mysticism/ecology/psychosexuality obsession oscilliation and actually leaving a descent literary legacy instead of starting a cult or several, but this post is already running so long it’s starting to need an editor.